Nov 7, 2017 Welcome - Please Read! Welcome to the Classic Discussion forum! This forum is here to provide you with a friendly environment where you can discuss all aspects of World of Warcraft: Classic with your fellow players. Community forums work best when participants treat their fellow posters with respect and courtesy, so we ask that you take the time to read through the forum Code of Conduct and guidelines before posting. Code of Conduct: http://us.battle.net/en/community/conduct Getting the Most Out of the Forums: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/2016792409 Important Reminders: Search The search function at the top of the World of Warcraft community site is extremely effective and robust. Before you create a new forum topic, please be use it to search for similar topics, blog posts, or web pages that may contain the answer for which you are looking. Making a new thread on an existing subject can result in your thread being deleted or, if you continue to re-post the same content, the loss of your forum privileges for spamming. Rating The forum rating system can be used to promote positive discussion and even report posts that violate the forum Code of Conduct. By hovering over a post you'll be presented with several options, including a "thumbs up" (Like) icon. Clicking the "thumbs up" icon will rate the post up. If enough people like a post, it will gain a Highly Rated status and appear at the top of related search results. Highly Rated posts will also have a highlighted background. You can also quickly report a post as trolling or spam, or use the report function to fill out a more comprehensive description of a violation. Please note that you can only rate each post once. Use your power wisely to help foster a positive and helpful forum community.Ornyx1 Nov 7, 2017


This is the first faction exclusive class available only for the Alliance players. Paladins in World of Warcraft: Classic end-game were considered as one of the best single target healers around. However, other Paladin specs were not that popular. While Protection Paladins found their spot with tanking groups of mobs across the dungeons, Retribution Paladins weren’t very popular in the end-game. However, Paladins were amazing levelers and World PvP participants due to their amazing utility skills and ‘oh shit’ buttons such as Lay on Hands or Bubble.

Nov 15 Classic is too easy for 2019 playerbase I'm not big on gameplay changes, really I'm not but... The game is just too easy for today's standards. I really think some of these raids and instances need a serious increase in difficulty. MC is a joke, most of the tier sets are unbalanced, and a lot of seasoned players agree but fear the toxic Classic community to speak up on this issue.Hopera237 Nov 15


We understand the customer’s concern for price, we go the extra mile to make sure you are getting the best deal. We have been in business for many years, many game gold and item suppliers have cooperated with us, we will find the best resources to provide customers with the most competitive and cheapest prices For WoW Classic Gold. We can afford to offer our WoW Classic Gold at lower prices than our competition without sacrificing on quality of service. We promise to deliver your WoW Gold as fast as possible. Usually we will complete your order within 10 minutes to 12 hours.
Warrior should be a go-to choice for everyone who wants to get into the end game. Protection Warriors in Classic WoW were considered as one of the best tanks, Fury talent build was a great option for DPS while Arms were dominating PvP environment. However, Warriors’ strength relies on the character’s gear, which means that you might need to put some hours into finding the right items for your class. It is also worth mentioning, that Warrior might be one of the hardest classes to level up in World of Warcraft: Classic but rest assured, if you’ll manage to hit the level cap and find suitable gear, Warrior is one of the strongest classes in the game.
Nov 15 C2C interview with Theloras aka ME Hey everyone, Earlier today I spent some time with the Man, the Myth, the Legend who is Countdown to Classic and we spent some time discussing what I and many other Paladins are most looking forward to in the upcoming WoW Classic demo that will be available during Blizzcon: https://www.twitch.tv/videos/325334774 Since it looks like just Elwynn Forest for the Alliance and Durotar for the Horde will be available to play/test during the upcoming demo/beta, only early level gameplay will be possible to test at any length. But even with that limitation, a major core mechanic for Paladins will be able to be tested and theory crafted. I am of course referring to JUDGEMENT STACKING which I outlined in the thread below along with several other mechanics/talents/items that are still lingering and unanswered questions: Proc Items + Spell Dmg + JotC stacking? https://us.battle.net/forums/en/wow/topic/20760205815#post-1 TLDR - I found actual Vanilla era evidence (posted in the thread above) which stated that all ranks of each individual Judgement stacked with one another - Judgement of Light (JoL), Judgement of Wisdom (JoW) and most critically in this case, Judgement of the Crusader (JotC): With pvp gloves, libram and 3/3 imp JotC = +829 holy damage JotC R1 +79 Holy Damage JotC R2 +90 Holy Damage JotC R3 +113 Holy Damage JotC R4 +148 Holy Damage JotC R5 +182 Holy Damage JotC R6 +217 Holy Damage Since rank 1 Seal/Judgement of the Crusader is learned at level 6 and rank 2 is learned at level 12, if Elwynn Forest ends up being the only zone open for testing, then reaching level 12 is definitely doable from quest turnins and XP from mob kills. Which will allow 2 Paladins to join as a group and coordinate each of them putting up rank 1 and rank 2 of Judgement of the Crusader accordingly. If this proves to be correct, then it would forever change the LOLRET Meta with the simple fact that the more Retribution Paladins you have in a group/raid, the more powerful each of them then become and would also allow other class/specs come to the forefront as well namely Discipline Priests spamming Smite. At any rate, the twitch interview link is above - we had some audio technical issues at the start so if you fast forward to the 5:00 mark - you can hear the full interview. PS as a bonus, later on in the interview the Crazy OOMkin named Keftenk makes a special guest appearance :) https://twitter.com/count2classicTheloras111 Nov 15
Nov 15 [OCE] Alliance Late night PvE will be a hard core focused PvE raiding guild. GOALS To clear all content efficiently and quickly To have fun To be the best we can be To clear MC during week 2- RAID TIMES raid times will be held in GMT+9, this is Japan's time zone for reference, this does NOT follow day light savings. for reference, at this moment these times would be 11:30 in Sydney, and 7:30AM EST USA. MON 9:30PM-12:30AM WED 9:30PM-12:30AM THUR 9:30PM-12:30AM-may schedule a 4th day during progression if needed- 20 man raids will be help on off days, or raid days if all content has been cleared. again to be clear, this schedule will not follow DSL, so your start time may move 1 hour forward or backwards during the year. EXPECTATIONS I want my raiders to be willing. You do not have to be a former pro raider, you do not have to have vanilla experience. While these things are welcomed and I do share these qualities. All i need from you is the willingness to learn and become better. Give me your best and I'll give you quality leadership that has proven time and time again to down bosses and push through content. Effort will always be rewarded. LOOT RULES I will be using my own system style of loot council. It has worked well for me in the past and I will continue to use it. I can explain parts of it in detail on discord if you wish. ROSTER This is a brand new endeavor, I will be main tanking and I am looking for others to help me push this to a competent raid team. I look forward to making fresh connections and creating great bonds with all of you. ABOUT ME I have been playing warcraft since vanilla. I climbed higher and higher into better and better guilds until I eventually landed in a top 10 US guild during MoP. before WOD released I essentially stopped hardcore raiding and went more casual. I am now looking to get back into a more hardcore scene with like minded individuals who enjoy the prestige of completing content quickly. CONTACT BATTLENET Firefly#1855 DISCORD Hatchmark#2695 the discord has lots of links to video guides and other sources to help get you ready for classicHatchmark8 Nov 15
Nov 15 [OCE] Alliance Late night PvE will be a hard core focused PvE raiding guild. GOALS To clear all content efficiently and quickly To have fun To be the best we can be To clear MC during week 2- RAID TIMES raid times will be held in GMT+9, this is Japan's time zone for reference, this does NOT follow day light savings. for reference, at this moment these times would be 11:30 in Sydney, and 7:30AM EST USA. MON 9:30PM-12:30AM WED 9:30PM-12:30AM THUR 9:30PM-12:30AM-may schedule a 4th day during progression if needed- 20 man raids will be help on off days, or raid days if all content has been cleared. again to be clear, this schedule will not follow DSL, so your start time may move 1 hour forward or backwards during the year. EXPECTATIONS I want my raiders to be willing. You do not have to be a former pro raider, you do not have to have vanilla experience. While these things are welcomed and I do share these qualities. All i need from you is the willingness to learn and become better. Give me your best and I'll give you quality leadership that has proven time and time again to down bosses and push through content. Effort will always be rewarded. LOOT RULES I will be using my own system style of loot council. It has worked well for me in the past and I will continue to use it. I can explain parts of it in detail on discord if you wish. ROSTER This is a brand new endeavor, I will be main tanking and I am looking for others to help me push this to a competent raid team. I look forward to making fresh connections and creating great bonds with all of you. ABOUT ME I have been playing warcraft since vanilla. I climbed higher and higher into better and better guilds until I eventually landed in a top 10 US guild during MoP. before WOD released I essentially stopped hardcore raiding and went more casual. I am now looking to get back into a more hardcore scene with like minded individuals who enjoy the prestige of completing content quickly. CONTACT BATTLENET Firefly#1855 DISCORD Hatchmark#2695 the discord has lots of links to video guides and other sources to help get you ready for classicHatchmark8 Nov 15
- Gold traders, both buyers and sellers are disliked everywhere, literary on every realm. But have no worries, we have developed very safe practices for trading the gold between ours and your accounts. If you require a specific way of delivery to you (AH, Face2Face, Mail, CoD) we can oblige to your request - just send us an e-mail right after your purchase (include your character name) and we will take care of the rest.
Nov 15 Skeletons RIP Please allow skeletons of dead players to Rest In Peace. Witnessing the aftermath of a city / town raid and seeing a blanket of bones that told a story of how the battle went down, really helped add to the MMORPG feel. I did not play the “demo” but reports say that skeletons disappear fairly quick. #nochangesMakinb17CEDC26 Nov 15
Nov 15 5 reasons I'm doubtful of WoW Classic I played WoW from patch 1.4 until Sunwell. And I'm not convinced on Classic. 1. I understand nostalgia for the gameplay, and it was a great game, by I don't get why people would want the old graphics when it looked outdated back then. Someone will level a warrior or rogue at snail pace and those 2004 boring graphics will reinforce his perception that the game is bad because it looks bad. 2. The lack of a second talent tree. This was the most demanded feature and I don't see people sticking with the game without it. 3. This has always been in the game, but weekly resets, I never got it, let people able to reset raids. Maybe have a 2 hours cooldown, but if a guild wants to farm a raid every night, or twice on a sunday, or farm the first 3 bosses of MC, let them. Gearing 40-60 people with weekly resets, in this day and age, good luck. 4. Dungeon finder, not sure people will like that, again bad decision. 5. The graphics, no seriously, this is bad on every level of game design, it just make the game look worse, a straight negative with no benefit.Pekuakami24 Nov 15
In OSRS, before bonds (their equivalent of tokens) were released, there was a strong gold industry, but most people who bought gold did so by buying bonds on the main game, then finding a dedicated 'swapper' who'd exchange their RS3 gold for an appropriate amount of OSRS gold (taking a cut for themselves, of course). I wonder if a similar system will pop up in classic wow
As you level, you will buy new ranks of spells. If you splurge out on an item upgrade, you will not have enough gold readily available to upgrade to the latest ranks of spells: placing you behind. Moreover, you can buy gear upgrades from the Auction House (AH) or vendors. Furthermore, you may have large investments that need to be paid for professors. You will need to purchase reagents and items such as leather, bolts of cloth, alchemy supplies – unless you have a charitable friend or another high-level alt.
Wait, /sit to trigger crits is p-server thing? I distinctly remember people saying that if you sit, you will be crit when I played 1.12 Vanilla. On top of that - there’s that pally that one shot Kazzak in early Vanilla because he stacked a shitload of reckoning when it didn’t have a limit - it’s not inconceivable that he did it without /sit to trigger crits, but it would take him so, SO long to do that without /sit.
The leveling guides on my site are essentially speed leveling guides.  My leveling guides are the same guides I use myself to speedrun to 60 on new servers to get 60 server first.  I list many occasions where I tell the player to "die on purpose" to go faster.  I tell the player to skip certain quests, because some quests are just not worth the time/XP.  I list tricks and shortcuts to go faster so you can reach level 60 much quicker.  I am still constantly going through them over and over again perfecting the guides to make them faster and easier to follow.  For the most part, the guide can be followed without the need from other player's help, as the whole guide was made from a solo run anyways.  Although I do list quests that can optionally be done if you have a group.
You can opt in for the beta at the official site. When the beta launches on May 15, players who’ve gotten in will be able to play all the way from from level one to 30. WoW game director Ion Hazzikostas tells us that the beta will be “uncharacteristically small compared to our expansions,” in part to ensure that the focus is on the proper launch this August. 

Gold in World of Warcraft Classic is an integral part of the game. In this article, we will discuss the importance/role of gold in vanilla WOW and how you can obtain it easily. Gold was vastly more important in classic; it gradually became less relevant/powerful as time went on in the current version of the game. It is very tedious (but not difficult) to gain gold in vanilla, which is why many people choose to purchase gold.
Expected More That WoW Classic Will Resurrect That Hardcore Breed Of MMO That So Many Players Originally Fell In Love With. In World Of Warcraft Classic, It's Built Using Patch 1.12, Titled Drums Of War, Released On August 22, 2006, Equipment And Abilities Will Remain Stable In Order To Reflect The Minor Adjustment That Blizzard Made With Each Path While Dungeons, Raids, And PVP Features Will Constantly Change.
Rogue combo points posed another challenge, because the game’s modern resource system knows how to gain and spend combo points, but not how to lose them when changing targets. There are also the older combat formulas to consider, so we had to bring back the code for the prior combat formulas including critical hits and crushing blows. Their chance to occur is also modified by the difference between the defender’s defense and the attacker’s weapon skill. Yes—weapon skill is back. We had the data for this aspect of the classic game, but we also needed to restore the code that increased your skills when you used them and made your skill level affect your chance to hit or get a glancing blow.
However, that’s not the full extent of Blizzard’s announcement. The developer behind World of Warcraft Classic has also announced that it will release a closed beta test for chosen (note this word) players to participate in. The closed beta is meant to test Blizzard’s servers, which I’m guessing will be pretty full once the game actually releases. Blizzard hopes that this beta can prepare them for a smooth launch, since this is pretty big for World of Warcraft players.
It is unclear if World of Warcraft Classic will cost anything or if you’ll just need an active subscription to play. However, Blizzard has revealed that those who already pay the $15 monthly fee to play World of Warcraft will have World of Warcraft Classic included in their subscription. More information about pricing and content should be revealed in the upcoming months at WoW Classic gets ready to launch this fall.
WoW: Classic is scheduled for August 27 (technically August 26 if you're in the Americas). The soonest that you can play it is starting in May, during Blizzard's scheduled stress tests. To opt-in you must have an active subscription on your Battle.net account. If you do, go to Account Management and select the Wow Classic beta. Keep in mind, there will be level caps during the test. The schedule is as follows:
The Horde levels 50-60 guide has been rewritten and revamped.  My 1-60 Horde leveling guide is now completely updated for the 1.12 Drums of War patch.  As you can see it is about 15% larger than the 40-50 guide (single largest guide page yet).  There is also a lot of route changes.  I moved the entire Silithus section from level 55 to level 58, which allowed me to include a lot more quests for that zone.  There is also a lot of other improvement to the route, including adding a lot more quests into the guide, mostly from Moonglade, Silithus and Eastern Plaguelands.  This will make the final level 59 grind much shorter.
Your WoW Classic Gold will usually be delivered to you within 10 minutes to 24 hours. There are usually several ways to delivery game goods: Face to Face Delivery, In-game Mailbox delivery, Game Auction House delivery. If the seller does not delivery within the promised time, please communicate with the seller in time, or contact our online customer service. Note that Do Not Trust Anyone Who Wants Trade You After You Get WoW Classic Gold.
Classic WoW is the highly anticipated, upcoming (re) release of the original, first World of Warcraft version, known as Classic and by it's other popular ice-cream like name: Vanilla WoW. Dubbed Retail Classic, or Official Classic by the playerbase - it was finally announced by Blizzard in November 2017, after a lot of pressure from the Private Server World of Warcraft community, since the latter's shutdown of the most popular Private Server called Nostalrius which featured the first WoW version in two separate PvP and PvE servers.
The first—and among the most important—decision we had to make was which version of the game to focus on. As many of you have noted, the classic period was two years long and full of changes. Core features like Battlegrounds were introduced in patches after WoW’s original launch, and class design similarly changed over time. After careful consideration, we decided on Patch 1.12: Drums of War as our foundation, because it represents the most complete version of the classic experience.
This is, in my opinion, the largest change that WoW Classic will have over Vanilla, and it’s something that simply can’t be undone. Back in Vanilla, guilds were very secretive over strategies of how to correctly defeat a boss. Videos of boss kills were virtually non-existent,and strategies on how to itemize and play various classes and specs were hard to come by, especially for newer players. This, in addition to the unforgiving raid requirements and difficult content, lead to a lot of the player base never really getting to see a lot of the endgame content. Those that did rarely ever did so efficiently, and it wasn’t uncommon for the best guild on any given server to take months to complete a raid tier. There is absolutely no way that this happens in Classic. The raids in Vanilla are very much a solved system by now. Every raid, and every boss and trash pack inside, has been thoroughly strategized and talked about to death over the last 14 years. Rest assured even if you and your friends never played Vanilla, someone in your raid party will know exactly what to do on every boss, exactly when the trash packs are going to respawn, and exactly what buffs and gear to get to prepare. That certainly doesn’t mean thatClassic raiding will be a cakewalk, but it will be different than how the majority of people stumbled through the content.

Nov 15 Spell Mechanic Questions and Hopes on Items I am not necessarily looking for any discourse that would lead to an answer, but hopefully this would gain enough traction that Blizzard might see it, and offer some insight to intended function come summer 2019. I know there is a current wall of text somewhere regarding questions on almost every item with a spell damage effect and whether or not they will be granted coefficients from character gear grand spell damage. I noticed one in particular that was left out and wanted to reiterate my personal favorites. Shard of the Fallen Star: Originally benefited in part or completely 1:1 ratio from spell damage and was capable of critting. It was nerfed in patch 2.0 which is after classic wow content. In the spirit of keeping things as they were, do you think Blizzard will keep this mechanic or change it to a post nerf state which although is not classic wow maybe seen as a balanced fix. Weapon List: Hand of Ragnaros, Netzerek the Blood Drinker, Corrupted Ashbringer, Shadowstrike - all received 2:1 coefficent originally in classic. I believe they were a little too strong but did not receive any nerf to my knowledge. Do you think these will remain as it was or be changed to satisfy the hopes for balance?Tunnelboy6 Nov 15
I started playing with WoW Classic like a couple months. I would not call my self old school or a vanilla participant but damn much when I began playing WoW Classic has been alot more entertaining than it is now. I didn’t really care about this particular WoW Classic release until yesterday. I am actually hyped to play with this. We see more staff work in the world and participant connections. Folks rarely up set to do anything at the world that is open and seldom speak to each other. Ive gone multiple days where il try to begin convos with players and its literally like trying to start a conversation using a NPC.
The vanilla WoW Horde leveling guide you see on this site was originally made back in 2006 by Joana (AKA Mancow, or FuriousPaul).  The guides have been tweaked many times over the years to make things "faster".  The leveling guides were made because of all the messages I got from people asking me how I was able to level up so quickly on new realms.  I was first to level 60 on 7 different realms (3 with Mancow and 4 with Joana), even winning Blizzard's "First to Level 50" contest they held back in 2006.
While this might be a change for the better,leveling in Classic will most certainly be different than leveling in Vanilla. In addition to sharding making the beginner zones much more friendly to the hordes and hordes of players storming the gates when Classic comes out, theVanilla leveling process has been studied thoroughly since the game came out 14years ago. Since then, not only have players leveled multiple alts and characters through the beginning zones in Vanilla, but they have done so on a multitude of private servers intended to have the most ‘Blizzlike’ experience. So while leveling a character from 1 to 60 will still be a long, arduous process, it will no longer be marred by mistakes made by players going from zone to zone, continent to continent, searching desperately for a place to level. The zones and routes have been thoroughly mapped out by the Vanilla WoW community at large, and with the internet being much more robust in 2019, that information is just a google search away. Is that a bad thing? I would venture to say that it isn’t, as knowing where to go and what to do doesn’t make it any less challenging and time consuming. It does take away from that exploration aspect,however. You might not have those moments of wandering into Feralas for the first time, or running from Storm wind to Strangle thorn just for the hell of it,or getting lost trying to get to Iron forge from Darnassus on a fresh Night elf.No, those moments, just like many fond memories of Vanilla, are lost in time.

I joined twitch in 2013 with the gamer name of FuriousPaul and I streamed speedruns of the classic Castlevania games from 2013 - 2017. Lately my streams have died down quite a bit due to working on Classic WoW leveling guides every day.  Although I may come on occasionally and play a random game for fun on my Twitch stream.  I talk a lot about WoW speedrunning on my channel, so feel free to follow and hang out to discuss vanilla WoW if you like.  Classic WoW will be my main focus for a long time.  Unfortunately I will have to wait until Classic WoW comes out before I start streaming it.


Nov 15 The most hardcore thing you can do. In vanilla? I have a few things that could be it. Playing on a perma death PvP server and kill kel'thuzad. Without dying even once. Being able to kill a mage/rogue/warlock/pally in all BiS gear Soloing a high end dungeon boss like rivendare or dark master gandling. Leveling to 60 with no gear or weapons or pet of any kind. That is by far the most hardcore, life threatening thing you can do in vanilla wowHavell7 Nov 15
Nov 15 We ordered vanilla not vanilla with sprinkles 1. Sharding/Phasing was not a part of the classic experience. The launch surge and often times overwhleming population fighting over quest mobs and loot was impactful on a human level which brought people together to make parties so they weren't fighting or made people bitter rivals. And that ten minutes you spent competing with people to loot that bucket before it despawned for another few minutes was intense. 2. Loot trading was not a part of the classic experience. Ninja looting was a real thing, a crime you could commit which united the community up in arms against you, blacklisting you. That's a feature for modern WoW, not genuine classic. This is a recreation. Not a remaster. Not reforged. We ordered vanilla, not vanilla with sprinkles on it with modern hand holding baby coddling streamlined bogus. That's more suited to your modern WoW playerbase, not the millions waiting patiently for the game they knew and loved over a decade ago. I don't want to sound like an entitled brat, but when you advertise a product, don't change it behind the scenes. Please Blizzard, don't add these things. They kill aspects of what made classic wow such a special phenomenon that rallied people to make private servers in its honor. I'll go play one if this isn't authentic, because those unofficial servers would be more authentic.Rhystael95 Nov 15
Nov 15 You Absolutely Cannot Have Sharding This will not work well with a classic experience. Myself and the vast majority of my friends plan on coming back for classic. None of them want sharding. I know I don't speak for everyone but this mechanic will completely ruin the experience. Just voicing my opinion as I am incredibly excited about this project.Wurmknight82	Nov 15

The Horde levels 50-60 guide has been rewritten and revamped.  My 1-60 Horde leveling guide is now completely updated for the 1.12 Drums of War patch.  As you can see it is about 15% larger than the 40-50 guide (single largest guide page yet).  There is also a lot of route changes.  I moved the entire Silithus section from level 55 to level 58, which allowed me to include a lot more quests for that zone.  There is also a lot of other improvement to the route, including adding a lot more quests into the guide, mostly from Moonglade, Silithus and Eastern Plaguelands.  This will make the final level 59 grind much shorter. 

Other decisions were slightly less clear cut. At one point in WoW’s history, there was an 8 debuff limit on any one target. This was later raised to 16, and today there is no debuff limit. Thes change radically changed the balance of classes and strategies players could employ when using these debuffs to overcome content. To preserve that balance—and to avoid the slippery slope of retuning patch 1.12 data to compensate for such modern-era changes—we’re looking at setting a debuff limit of 16 for WoW Classic.
You will need initial funds to start this way. Buy for cheap and sell for actual price or higher – that sounds pretty easy. But you should have basic knowledge of prices and always track the market. People use to sell for cheap when they need fast gold or don’t know real value of the item. So, it’s your chance to act. If you see anyone selling an item for low price in trade channel, contact them immediately. You should use all of your trade skills to negotiate about the price to make it as low as possible. It’s important ability to communicate. Besides, it’s good to get addons to trade effectively on Auction House: Aux or Auctioneer. They allow you to scan auction, compare prices, find cheapest options, post items quickly, and many other useful tools. It is possible to make your first thousand out of ten gold you have in a pocket.
You can opt in for the beta at the official site. When the beta launches on May 15, players who’ve gotten in will be able to play all the way from from level one to 30. WoW game director Ion Hazzikostas tells us that the beta will be “uncharacteristically small compared to our expansions,” in part to ensure that the focus is on the proper launch this August.
A lot has happened in World of Warcraft in the fifteen years since it originally launched, and over that time we’ve come to expect certain things, not just in WoW, but in games in general. As players explore Azeroth as it existed back in 2006 during the WoW Classic beta, they’re reporting bugs – but in many cases, these ‘bugs’ are really just features that are working as intended.
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